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| A CONVERSATION OVER LUNCH IN THE RESTAURANT OF THE INTERCONTINENTAL HOTEL IN PARIS, 15 NOVEMBER 1981 Nikita D. Lobanov-Rostovsky Participants in the conversation: John E. Bowlt (arrived from Texas), Nikolay Benois (arrived from Milan) and Nikita D. Lobanov-Rostovsky (arrived from London) Persons mentioned in the conversation: Alexander Benois (famous artist, art historian and critic), Nikolay Benois (his son, also an artist), Anna Alexandrovna (his daughter), Yelena Alexandrovna (his youngest daughter, an artist), Zinaida Serebryakova (artist belonging to Mir iskusstva), Picasso (painter of "Guernica", 1937 etc.), Nikita Lobanov-Rostovsky (prince, collector living in London), John E. Bowlt (American professor). | |
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Nikita Lobanov: Thus we've come to the second question, concerning paintings and drawings. There are several possibilities. First it's necessary to establish your family's aims, and then we can discuss details. If the aim is to preserve the memory of Alexander Benois on as large a scale as possible, then it would be worth placing his works in several museums, rather than concentrating them in one. For example, in Leningrad, Kiev, Moscow, London, Washington, San Francisco... An artist attains world fame only if he can arouse world interest in himself. For example, I'm currently working to bring about the auctioning of works by Serebryakova at Sotheby's in London. You see, nobody knows her or will know her, so long as her works do not end up in galleries or auction houses. Auction catalogues are the best form of advertising for an artist, since they are sent throughout the world and end up in every art library. ZINAIDA SEREBRYAKOVA Nikolay Benois: So it turns out that even Zinaida is unknown?! Nikita Lobanov: They know nothing about her. Alexander Borisovich Serebryakov and his sister Katya aren't selling Zinaida's works. N.B.: But she's an artist of genius! N.L.: Quite right. For a year now, I've been forced to engage in convincing them. But they're so timid. Finally, they have brought themselves to entrusting me with portraits of Alexander Borisovich and ballerina Irina Borisovna for the next Sotheby's auction. Thus, Serebryakova's name will begin to appear. N.B.: No doubt it will. N.L.: At her studio on Rue de la Compagne Première the scene is the same as at Anna Alexandrovna's. Even worse‑- there's drawing piled on drawing. There are sheets and sheets of nude and semi-nude women. I suppose she, poor thing, was partial to beautiful female bodies. But were you acquainted with her? N.B.: She was a quiet, humble woman. N.L.: In order to promote her work, I offered to show ten of her drawings each year at various auctions. At least everyone would be talking of Serebryakova - even if they didn't buy the work. And the catalogues would show reproductions of the works. Otherwise, they're all sitting in portfolios getting covered with dust. Nobody sees them. Why am I so anxious on this matter? Because I'm interested in Russian art. I have works by Serebryakova in my collection, but I'm ashamed to have to tell people who Zinaida Serebryakova is. So far there's no book about her either. N.B.: Yes, yes. That saddens me. The same thing can be seen in Italy, or rather it's even worse. Over there they are in a sense even more provincial. What's happening is unbelievable - all sorts of rubbish and trifles are celebrated and sold for fantastic money! The sort of nits who paint after a certain pattern - following modernist recipes, you might say... But the real masters are completely unknown. I've always regarded Zina as a painter of genius, starting with the stunning "Self-Portrait at the Mirror". It's an amazing piece. I remember from my youth how dazzling it appeared at a Mir iskusstva exhibition. That, by the way, was my Dad's exhibition. He supported it in particular. Zina is a typically Russian phenomenon, although she herself was only half-Russian. But that's unimportant. This fact plays no role. She is nevertheless a purely Russian phenomenon, although she was plucked from her own land - like an exquisite plant. On the one hand, I can understand that she was stifling there in Leningrad. But, speaking openly, I'm convinced that if she'd stayed in Russia, she'd have been raised to a place of honour. That's the fate of many typical Russian painters. They've been plucked from their own land - like Sasha Jakovlev, Vasya Shuhayev and all the rest of the miriskusstniks. After all, they were innovators, but in 1917 the world turned upside down and it all ended sadly. I suppose they should have stayed in Russia after all. ARRIVAL IN PARIS Nikolay Benois: When we arrived in Paris in 1924, I was completely destitute. The small sum of money we could take with us from Russia had been spent long ago. But travelling with me to Paris was my uncle Albert, my first wife and my godson - the grandson of my uncle, the famous watercolour painter Albert Nikolayevich, who was paralysed. All the way, we carried uncle Albert from carriage to carriage. I'll never forget how we carried him from the Soviet train to the deck of the ship at Szczecin. It was all made worse by another detail - in fact it was a nightmare - that he, poor thing, was incontinent. To put it briefly, we arrived in Paris, and by mistake we ended up in a brothel. We were let down by a scoundrel of a taxi driver. John Bowlt: How awful. N.B.: I got out and went to see the landlady. There was a sort of medusa sitting at the end of a corridor laid out with white tiles. She asks me: "Est-ce que vous voulez une chambre pour quatre?" - "Bien sûr, bien sûr," I reply. And then the boy rushes in. "Uncle Koka, uncle Koka!" She takes a strange look at me - I suppose she thought me some sort of degenerate. And then the taxi driver dragging up behind him, supporting my eighty-five-year-old uncle on one side, supported on the other side by my wife. J.B.: Complete degeneracy! N.B.: It emerged later that this was only a brothel, not a hotel. Nikita Lobanov: Why did the taxi driver decide to take you there? N.B.: Because we had the address of this place. Our relatives in Berlin gave it to us. But of course they had made a mistake. It was a real Russian mix-up. After that, we went to a hotel on the Rue Saint Benois. That was an awful dump. I suppose it hadn't been cleaned since the reign of Henry IV. I remember the toilet being in a place you could reach by candlelight along a steep winding staircase. But I could not conceive of anything worse than what was happening in Russia. So all of this seemed a lot less awful. The next morning, our dear Misha Larionov arrived and took us under his wing. He put us up in a hotel near his house. It was an establishment that very much resembled a brothel, but it was tolerable. PICASSO Nikolay Benois: In these terrible foreign parts, banalities do triumph after all. What do you say, dear Nikita Dmitriyevich? For example, immense attention is given to that painting "Guernica" by Picasso. To me it seems a complete non-entity. Nikita Lobanov: Neither do I understand it. N.B.: It's quite evident that the artist has been mocking his friends. It's absolute piffle. Apparently, those terror-stricken eyes reveal tragic events. What terror-stricken eyes? Some sort of caricature, and quite a mediocre one at that. N.L.: Well, Guernica was bombarded. But Stalingrad was completely ruined, Berlin was destroyed... N.B.: It's a terrible thing... N.L.: And it's terrible not because it's bad, but because it's frightening. You look at these paintings and see horrifying human-like faces and figures with a strong mark of erotica. But it's not humanly beautiful erotica. N.B.: No... N.L.: It's some sort of awful sex. N.B.: Awful, degenerate. N.L.: And I completely fail to understand the attraction. Why is there such demand. People come to see it. N.B.: Unfortunately, humanity is in crisis at the moment. People have in fact lost their faith, lost a healthy attitude towards nature. A great number of wonderful places are being destroyed. We should turn to ecological conservation, I would even say - the conservation of picturesque landscapes. The same thing can be said of painting - it must be purified. It's polluted with all sorts of rubbish. Just think what's happening! Nowadays, there's no longer any such thing as a cult of mastery. But that plays an essential role. PORTRAIT OF A COLLECTOR John Bowlt: What is the ideational basis for your portrait of collector Nikita Dmitriyevich Lobanov-Rostovsky? Nikolay Benois: It must be admitted that the collector's personality is quite fiery. Because he's one of those people who create culture. And it finds support in such people, rather than the "know-it-alls" who blab on and rave about all sorts of charlatan contemporary phenomena. But this is a serious person. He has a deep love of Russian art. And also - he is a prince. J.B.: A man! N.B.: And also I have to admit that I purposefully placed in his hands the sketch by Kalmakov - this scene speaks ironically of contemporary society. You see, such a masterfully drawn demon by Nikolay Kalmakov in the hands of Lobanov expresses in some way his attitude to life. That is to say - somewhat demonical. J.B.: Interesting. N.B.: That was what inspired me. Also the reticent smile. You see, everyone is enraptured with Joconde's smile. Why? Because it is and at the same time is not a smile. In art, you always need a smile. J.B.: Even if it's ironic? N.B.: Yes, a little ironic, a little kindly. That's my ideational basis. But I also wanted to refer to Nikita Dmitriyevich's background - and so there's the Rostovsky Cathedral in the window. That seems very beautiful to me. His family comes from the very heart of Russian history. It connects him with the Shchukins and Morozovs, with Dyagilev, with truly creative people. He holds a secret. And against the background of this secret, we see a bright and happy, radiant face... J.B.: Nikita Dmitriyevich, are you preparing to purchase works by Alexander Nikolayevich? Nikita Lobanov: Yes, for example those large sketches of the set for "Giselle" that are in the green portfolio. N.B.: Well, that would be ideal. Can you buy straight away? N.L.: Yes. N.B.: Then I don't quite understand why Anna Alexandrovna hasn't brought you these works yet. N.L.: She says she wishes to discuss it with you. After that, I'd like to purchase something of "Armida". These are the things I'd like to acquire. And I still hope to purchase Alexander Nikolayevich's "Petrushka" works. N.B.: Your sketches, the costume designs for "Petrushka", I forgot in the chaos of leaving. I set them aside especially for you, but then I forgot where. SKETCH FOR A PORTRAIT OF NIKOLAY BENOIS Nikita Lobanov: Would you, dear Nikolay Alexandrovich, be willing to attend a conference devoted to Russian theatrical art in Texas, at the expense of the Cultural Society? Nikolay Benois: Most gladly. John Bowlt: But you don't speak English, do you? N.B.: No, unfortunately. I speak French tolerably, so to say. Russian and Italian as well... I should say that I speak all the languages more or less tolerably, apart from English. You must understand - when I was growing up, German and French predominated in Russia... Strange, isn't it? But my parents spoke English quite well. They retained the use of this language so they could discuss their secrets in the presence of us, the children. J.B.: Do you have any theoretical articles on stage sets and design? N.B.: There are published articles. N.L.: But what are you thinking of doing with your manuscripts on the subject of set design? N.B.: I hadn't thought about that... N.L.: Think about it, since John's institute at Texas University has a wonderful archive. J.B.: Yes, we collect manuscripts. N.L.: It's a state-financed, wonderful building, a rich institute. In a city that probably won't be hit by an atomic bomb, since Texas is far from New York. That's why I too keep my collection there. N.B.: I'll definitely think about it, with pleasure. It would be very flattering. J.B.: Maybe you'd like to visit us? I understand you're sometimes in Houston? N.B.: I should have been there, but I never got there. My sets have been made at Houston. J.B.: And you're not planning a trip now? N.B.: I'm often in Miami. But now I have no reason for going there. Bear in mind, John, that I only travel if companies or societies, those uncles, pay my way. I myself could not. In January, my wife and I are travelling to Tokyo, but this trip too is connected with ballet. J.B.: We'll pay for the trip from Miami. N.L.: But maybe you could attend the international set design contest that John is organising in 1983 and read a paper about your works. J.B.: Yes! N.B.: That would be wonderful. N.L.: There's another subject not connected with paintings that John and I have been discussing. These are your literary notes. I very much hope you and John will decide what to do with them. For example, I remember a story about how Gorky helped you to leave the Soviet Union. N.B.: That's true. N.L.: John could prepare a publication for his journal. N.B.: There's something about that in the collection of memoirs now published in Miami. N.L.: Is it available in Russian too? N.B.: No, Italian. N.L.: You wrote your memoirs in Italian? N.B.: The ones that have been published, yes. N.L.: I seem to recall that the pages you showed me were in Russian. N.B.: Yes, that's the way it is. These were from the book "Gorky and Artists", published in the Soviet Union. IDA RUBINSTEIN John Bowlt: On the wall of Lobanov's dining room are the outstanding sketches by Serov for the painting "The Rape of Europe". Does the fact that the central figure in this work is Ida Rubinstein have any symbolic significance? Nikolay Benois: In "The Rape of Europe" it does. Altogether, we have to save Europe, its culture, which also affects America. J.B.: But what sort of woman was Ida Rubinstein? N.B.: I remember Ida Rubinstein as a wonderful subject for painting, her decorativeness. She received me, sitting in a theatre box, like Cleopatra. All in feathers. Very typical of that time. A sort of d'Annuncio. J.B.: But was she physically beautiful? N.B.: Amazingly beautiful. Of course, I knew her when she was already of mature age. Nikita Lobanov: What was so attractive about her? She resembled a skinny Modigliani. It seems to me that men don't usually seek out such thin Modigliani's. N.B.: I must say! It's all a matter of taste. N.L.: Everyone speaks of her with such rapture, as if she were the century's most erotic lady. But look at her - just a skeleton. N.B.: I'll tell you from my experience. I'm 80 years old. In my life, I've been carried away with very thin, dainty women, and also with very full-bodied ladies with big breasts - it all depends on various influences. I think personal tastes change in accordance with the spirit of the age. After all, there was the cult of the plump ladies of Rubens and Titian. N.L.: And the cult of Kustodiyev's market women. For example, in the tea-drinking scenes. N.B.: And in my youth I was passionately enamoured with trading-women in particular. Not that I had any relationships with them. I'm no Don Juan. I liked their appearance. After that, it all turned in the opposite direction. I ended up in the world of ballet, where I was infatuated with a very thin little ballerina, who was also very famous. I had a brief, but very fiery affair with her. J.B.: But was Ida a clever, intelligent woman, or simply charming? N.B.: Yes, she was a very clever and also exceptionally cultured woman. There's no doubt about that. We didn't talk very much about art, but we did also have discussions about the theatre. Of course, she used to talk down to people, with a sort of benign grace. N.L.: When she lived in the West, where did her money flow from? You can afford to talk down to people only if you have money. N.B.: She was after all the official lover of the English beer king Walter Guinness (the later Lord Moyne). We made decorations and costumes all with this beer money. N.L.: And what then - did they live together officially or meet only in secret? N.B.: No, they used to meet. Afterwards they went away on his yacht, and were gone completely. And then they returned. He evidently liked her. N.L.: But judging from Serov's portrait - she was just skin and bones. N.B.: I personally could never fall in love with her. She really was like a model. Every little bone was visible. It's been emphasised in a delicately ironic way in Serov's portrait too. J.B.: Interesting, what happened to her? N.B.: She died in Paris in 1960 at 6 Place des Etats Unis... But meeting her in 1924 was such a shock for me... I ended up with her after coming directly from Soviet Russia. "Directly from the ship to the ball", so to say. After all, the whole of Russia had changed. J.B.: Were you bringing her a gift from someone? How did you get there? N.B.: I had, so to speak, a recommendation from my Dad. On the one hand. On the other hand, it was because my Dad was sending his sketches for a production of "La Dame aux Camelias". I created this set design according to the sketches. In the middle of everything else, I had practical dealings with her. I was the ideal person to realize my father's sketches. And my sister Yelena had such a talent too, which is why we worked together so often. P. S. Nikolay Alexandrovich Benois departed from life in 1988. The fate of the talented Benois dynasty's artistic legacy is not entirely clear. Part of it has reached the Benois Family Museum at Petrodvorets, part of it ended up with the heirs. Certain fragments appear in Russian art auctions at Sotheby's and Christie's. | |
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